“'There's cold chicken inside it,' replied the Rat briefly; 'coldtonguecoldhamcoldbeefpickledgherkinssaladfrench

'O stop, stop,' cried the Mole in ecstacies: 'This is too much!'”
-- from
The Wind in the Willows

Wednesday, April 29, 2009

The Pet Sitter Books • Middle-grade fiction (illustrated)

The Pet Sitter: Tiger Taming
The Pet Sitter: Dixie in Danger
Julie Sykes • Illustrated by Nathan Reed
March 2009 •
Kingfisher • Middle grade fiction (illustrated) • Ages 7-10
Introducing Max, the pint-sized hero of a brand new series for pet lovers everywhere.
Story: Tiger Taming: Max thinks he’s going to love his new job as a pet sitter, but his first client, Miss W. Itchy, seems a little odd. His instincts prove him right when it turns out that her cat, Tiger, can talk. It’s not long before Tiger is ordering Max around, demanding bat juice and hogging the TV. But when Miss Itchy’s archenemy kidnaps Tiger, Max has to prove just what kind of pet sitter he really is.
Story: Dixie in Danger: Max is minding his own business when he receives a call from Ivor Gadget, a famous inventor who needs Max to pet sit his dormouse, Dixie. How hard could it be? thinks Max. Ivor is hardly out the door when Dixie escapes from her cage and runs through the invention-filled house. Little does Max know that the chase will land him 2,000 years back in time.
Story behind the story: Julie Sykes is the author of more than 20 books for children. Nathan Reed has illustrated many children’s books, including Kingfisher’s I Am Reading: Hocus-Pocus Hound. If you want a preview before you get your sample copy, take a sneak peek at first chapter excerpts at
http://www.kingfisherpublications.com/. Plus, Kingfisher, the publisher of the PET SITTER books, has created some widgets for Dixie in Danger and Tiger Taming for your websites and blogs.

FYI: all the review copies for this title have been sent and reviews are in the works; please check back and click on the "comments" link below to read what your colleagues have to say.


Brittany said...

This book was a great kid’s book. Nice uses a vocabulary that will help young readers learn more words. Also subtle anti-drinking and responsibility messages are in this book. Bat wing juice seems to have the same effect as alcohol and Max adamantly refusing is a good message. I believe kids will thoroughly enjoy this book, because it has adventure and magic which are both very gripping.
Max sees an ad in the pet store that says someone is looking for a pet sitter. His mom allows him to sign up for the job and Max goes over to meet Tiger the cat. The Miss Itchy's house is very peculiar and so are Miss Itchy and her cat. When Max comes to feed Tiger the next morning she is watching T.V. and sipping soda. Then she talks to Max and he is amazed. Tiger is a little rotten to Max not listening to what he tells her to do. When he comes back that night she refuses to go inside she wants to hang out with her friends, until two big dogs come and scare them away. The next morning Max goes into the house to find not Tiger but one of her friends, Red-Eye. Red-Eye tells Max that Tiger has been taken by Grimboots to Seaweed Island. Max learns how to fly a broom and rescues Tiger and two other cats. Ms. Itchy hears about how good of a pet sitter Max is when she gets back and asks if she can recommend him to her friends. Max agrees excitedly.

Max is back in this exciting second book of The Pet Sitter series. This time he is in charge of an inventor's dormouse, Dixie. At first Dixie doesn't really like Max because she would rather go with the inventor. Dixie tricks Max and escapes from her cage. Max runs around trying to catch her and they end up stumbling into an elevator, or so Max thought. After the "elevator" takes off on a crazy ride the doors open and outside is Ancient Rome. They decide to go off and eat some berries they get caught and Max remembers that dormice were delicacies in Ancient Rome. They escape and help some other Dormice escape. The only problem now is that with no dial on the elevator they can't really predict where they will end up. They overshoot it a little and see the inventor as an old man. Finally they end up in the present and have a fun couple of days until the inventor returns.
This book was another fabulous book for kids. This one like the one before had fun illustrations. Dixie in Danger did not have magic in it like Taming the Tiger did but it still had some mystery and suspense.
I would recommend this to all 9-12-year-olds. I'm sure they would enjoy it. I know I did.

4/5 These were some fun books.

Mary said...

These 2 books I thought were really good. I think that a 2nd - 3rd grade student, especially one who loves animals will really enjoy both these books.

The thing that most grabbed me about both books was the hidden message inside - alcohol seems to be hidden in the first one, being friends with everyone seems to be the theme with the second. I like suggesting good books to my students that are quality reading material and teach a lesson or have a moral of some kind.

Overall score I'd have to give these two books a 4. Really great for any elementary library with a bunch of animal crazy kids!

EShay said...

Cute books with likable main characters. A young boy with a pet sitting job - many kids' dream job. It was nice how a young boy discovers how to solve all types of problems and dilemmas. Talking animals are a fun addition.
The pictures are very modern and help break up the book. 2nd and 3rd graders should enjoy the stories.
They were an extremely quick read, but seemed not spectacular. I give them a 3.

Amy said...

The Pet Sitter series is one that 1-3 graders, especially those are fond of pets, will enjoy. The covers and pictures are eye catching and appealing. Like some of the previous reviewers stated, I also liked the messages that seemed to be implied in the story. Overall, I would give it a 3 out of 5.

Elementary Librarian
Houston, Texas

Julia Pitau said...

The Pet Sitter: (1) Tiger Taming and (2) Dixie In Danger are delightful reads for younger students wishing for adventure and not-too-scary mishaps. With talking animals and a touch of magic, this series is sure to please. I am looking forward to more pet-sitting adventures with Max. Who knows what kind of talking animal he'll face next! And how wonderful that the story always ends on a positive note with the last page depicting a picture of Max and his new friend.

Picnic Basket: 3.5

Denair Charter Academy
Denair, CA

Aubrey Heusser said...

I was not impressed with these books. I think they underestimate young readers by making sentences very short (which leads to a choppy feel), and using namecalling and bratty behavior as humor. The second was less choppy than the first, so maybe the series will improve as it goes on. The illustrations have odd proportions and angles, so they are annoying to look at. The occult themes in the first book will be unpopular with many parents, but is not essential to the series and not at all in the second book. Several times in both books, the plots hinge on a rescue or help that always appears just in time, but so randomly and suddenly that it is not believeable (I'm not saying talking animals are nonfiction, but they're easier to accept than the repeated Deus Ex Machina). These will not be joining the permanent collection - I give them a 1.

Anonymous said...

I thought the books to be clever in introducing the reader to different kinds of fantastical characters and situations. In "Tiger Taming" the protagonist encounters a witch that drinks bat-wing juice, uses a magic wand and has a flying broom. In "Dixie in Danger" the protagonist encounters an inventor of a time machine, and is taken back into Ancient Rome. In both stories the animals talk. Alongside of these captivating elements, the books incorporate educational moments that teach the reader facts and vocabulary.

I personally enjoyed the books and would enjoy reading the others as well. I give them a Picnic Basket rating of 4 out of 5.

Sarah Oyerinde
Marion, Indiana

Carol said...

Witty talking animals, interesting pet owners, and Max, the adventurous pet sitter, make for a entertaining recipe! Max is likable from the start, and his experiences are a blend of real emotions and curious inquiry with fantasy and unimaginable mishaps.

The larger size font and pacing of the book, makes for an approachable format. The book is well organized and accessible to a variety of readers, including readers who are exploring reading chapter books.

I will order this series for the K-8 library next year. I read both the books I received right after one another. I believe these books will be popular and that readers will want to read all the ones they can get their hands on. This is the perfect series for a summer reading list!

I give it a score of 4.

Carol Null
Pemetic Elementary School
Southwest Harbor, ME

Pat Kramer said...

The Pet Sitter Books seem best suited to second or third graders. I don't feel that they would hold the attention of older children. Students in my third grade class didn't care for the first book, Tiger Taming. The second book in the series, Dixie in Danger, was more enjoyable to them as it dealt with time-traveling and had a more interesting story line. My students and I are giving these books a 2 - Recommended under Certain Reading Situations.
Pat Kramer
Third Grade Teacher
Palm Harbor, FL

dmuldawer said...

When I requested the Pet Sitter Books, I was hoping they'd be an option for my lower-level readers (I teach 6th grade). However, despite the recommended ages, this series seems much more appropriate for second or third graders.

The language is simple, conflicts are easily resolved, and Max seems quite elementary in his speech and disposition.

Kids will enjoy the talking animals and the general silliness. They will probably also enjoy the brat factor as both animals, especially the cat, have major attitude problems.

While the books are fun to read, they unfortunately lack genuine conflict resolution. Instead of having to use his own wits to overcome problems, Max is helped by outside sources. For example, when the cat disappears, another cat appears and teaches Max how to use a broom. The timing is a bit too convenient. It also seems odd that a normal boy would be able to fly and use magic wands without any training or without having the proper heritage.

In the second book, Max and the dormouse get back to their own time awfully easily, considering they are being pursued by angry Romans and have no pointer to guide the time machine.

I imagine these books would be well received by younger readers, but don't expect anything beyond a fun read from this series.

Picnic Basket Rating: 3

Martine Battista said...

I enjoyed reading about Max and his pet sitting adventures. I particularly loved Tiger from the first book. She was sassy and clever and had me rooting for her from the start. I was hoping she would make an appearance in the second book. My students love adventure, magic, and goofy characters so this series is a perfect fit for them. I can't wait to share Max, Tiger and Dixie with them. I give these books a 4!
Denair Elementary School
Denair, CA

Anonymous said...

I enjoyed these books. They are suited for lower level readers. I would use these more in the 2nd and 3rd grades than 4th or 5th. The illustrations were fun as well.

ahslibrarian said...

Julie Sykes’ The Pet Sitter series offers a pleasant transition from the world of mundane chores. Readers who are searching for their first career moves will do well to consider the adventure filled world of pet sitting. The mishaps, difficulties and responsibilities encountered with routine pet sitting duties make for more than interesting reading. Whether caring for a witch’s cat or an inventor’s dormouse, the books should offer a fun-filled experience for most readers in second through fourth grades.

Nathan Reed’s illustrations help the reader develop a sense of the story, but they also enlarge the characters and their escapades. There is no doubt in the reader’s mind that they are dealing with fictional characters, but these characters exhibit many of the same joys and frustrations that accompany childhood. The consistency of the illustrations across the series also breeds familiarity with the main character, Max, and the styles of animation that children are accustomed to viewing on television. The cover art reinforces those media connections and that makes the series have great shelf appeal.

The playful series would be a good candidate for classroom and elementary libraries. Communities that are hypersensitive to witches, wizards, and spells might want to avoid Tiger Taming. On the other hand, books that kindle the imagination are always dangerous and this series delivers.

4 out of 5

John Parker
Media Coordinator
Andrews High School
50 HS Drive
Andrews, NC 28901


Anonymous said...

I really enjoyed reading these books and I am sure that the students will also. Everyone enjoys reading about animal and these animals will keep the students reading. Max is a great pet sitter. He does not spend time questioning why the animals talk to him, and you know once the rules are stated that they will be broken.
In the first book Tiger was a great cat. All cat's like to get into trouble so you knew that this one was going to lead Max astray. The illistrations were great in the book and the vocabulary does not make it seem to young for my 6the graders to read.
Once they finish The Tiger Tamer they will look forward to reading the second book. My students with reading difficulties will enjoy this story even more. These student have just completed a biome project and one of they animals they studies was the dormouse. Now they can read a fantasy book about this animal.
I would give these books a 4-5 on my picnic basket scale. It is always to have a series with animals as the main characters. The adventures that the characters have will keep the students reading.
Jackie Purificato
Consultant teacher

Heather Hill said...

I was really excited when I received these books because it is hard to find something that grabs the attention of 1st, 2nd, and below level 3rd graders that is not really difficult to read. These are easy chapter books with less than 100 pages apiece. These chapter books, with pictures, are a wonderful transition to chapter books.

The stories were fun, inventive, and definitely original. I know my students will want to read more stories about Max's adventures in pet sitting. I highly recommend these books as a 5 out of 5.

Heather Hill, Reading Specialist
Sinclair Elementary
Manassas, VA

Lemon the Duck said...

The Pet Sitter Books are fast-paced and have a high readability level for lower-level readers. My students found this book to be very funny and full of action and my struggling readers were motivated to reread this book because of it's humor. The main character was responsible and saw things through to the end.
I do not think these books have a strong plot. The pets are too "sassy" and I'm left wondering why Max wants to attempt another pet-sitting job.
I rate this series a 3.5 out of 5.

Laura Backman
Reading Specialist
Author of "Lemon the Duck"

Bette said...

I have found books to be a good fast read for my second and third graders. They are drawn to the first book. The second book offers more of a time travel and I am sure that is why the boys enjoy it more than the girls. The loyalty part of the story teaches a good lesson in fair play and team work.

Trish Copeland said...

These two books were a treat! Engaging story line about a boy who can't have a pet because of his sister's allergies so he starts a pet sitting business. Of course, he doesn't end up with your normal pet sitting jobs. He encounters all sorts of adventures and has to do some quick thinking in order to fulfill his responsibilities to the animals in his care. They are perfect for younger readers who will definitely enjoy them and probably ask for the rest of the books in the series.

I would give them a 4 out of 5.

Anonymous said...

The Pet Sitter books are wonderful. They start out a little slow, but the end wonderfully. Max is a great character that younger readers and reluctant readers can relate to. His siutations as a pet sitter are a little unique, but it's fun to read how he gets himself back from Ancient Rome or how he rescues a witch's cat from a wizard. The endings are the best part because Max gains confidence for taking care of his charges, yet shows that sometimes things do not go as he plans.

I rate this a 4.

Catherine Yezak,Special Education Teacher, Marquette Area Public Schools, Marquette, Michigan

Michelle said...

I found the Pet Sitter books to be appropriate for children that are ready to transition into chapter books. The large print, short chapters, and pictures are especially appealing to that age group. 4 out of 5 stars

Stacy said...

Delightful books for the primary grades. I gave them to a neighbor boy to read. He loved both but asked if he could tear out the last page from both books, an illustrated page, not numbered, that says "Me and Dixie!" and "Me and Tiger!" He caught the grammatical error and it bothered him. Solid 3 rating for both, otherwise.

jpourciau said...

I enjoyed both books in "The Pet Sitter" series. I think these books would be great for advanced 1st grade readers, as well as 2nd and 3rd grade students. I believe kids will enjoy reading about Max's pet sitting adventures and peculiar experiences with talking animals.

Like other reviewers, I too liked the underlying messages that each of these books presents its readers. The pictures were also a nice addition to the book and will help students create images of the story while reading.

I will absolutely reccommend both of these books to my students in the fall and look foward to reading futures books about Max's pet sitting adventures and dilemmas. I give both books a 5 out of 5 rating.

Christy said...

I thought both of these books were written perfecty for those from 2nd-4th grade or for struggling 5th graders. The stories move at a fast pace and Max, the main character, behaves the way most 3rd grade boys do, so many kids can relate to that. I also liked the way the author threw in a few Tier 2 vocabulary words (instead of 50 new words)in each book that kids can learn while reading the books. The fantasy in the stories reminded me a bit of Harry Potter and Bunnicula all rolled into one. I will definitely book talk this to my homeroom as I think they will really enjoy these books. I hope more are coming! I give these books a 5 out of 5 rating.

Rhonda McFarland said...

I used these two books as read-alouds for my 28 third grade students. They absolutely loved them. Both were very quick reads and several of the students begged me to let them read the books on their own a second time. Hidden moral message or not, I feel these are fun, highly engaging books as evident by my class' eagerness to have me "keep reading" whenever I tried to stop.
I rate both of these books a "5"
Rhonda McFarland
3rd Grade Teacher
Gates Elmentary
Aurora, IL

Vegas said...

The illustrations are absolutely adorable and I liked the basic plot lines. The books are absolutely appropriate for elementary readers or early middle school readers who are a little less mature and struggling with reading. I give it a 3 out of 5 on the picnic basket scale. Having a few copies of this book on the bookshelf will help teachers with some of the struggling readers.

Vegas said...

I liked this book better than first one. The story seemed to flow better and I liked te inventor and his dormouse. The reading level and topic is suited more for elementary students or possibly 6th graders than 7th grade students. The illustrations really added a lot to the story. I would rate this a 2 or 3 out of 5 on the picnic scale.

Carrie Blagg said...

"The Pet Sitter" books will be a big hit with readers transitioning to chapter books. The simple sentence structure is conducive to comprehension and the uncomplicated plots are appropriate for the intended audience. (K-2)

I give these books 5 out of 5.

Carrie Blagg, Librarian Assistant
Cherokee Elementary School
Paradise Valley, AZ

Anonymous said...

I rate this book a 4.
I teach grades 3,4, and 5. All my kids would love these books. They are long enough to grab their attention and want to keep reading and short enough not get bored with them.
Even my struggling readers would love these books. They would really like to keep reading to see how it ends.
The stories themselves were very kid appropiate and something they could relate to. I really like these pet sitter books and hope to see more of them.
I think the main reason I like them so much, besides the reasons I just said, is that the stories are not over the top and are FUN! They are not filled with bad words, bullies or the other things school kids face today.

Anonymous said...

I would give the Pet Sitter books a 4 out of 5. These are great books for young readers. The chapters are short and the reading is easy for kids who are beginning to read chapter books.

David P.

Mrs. Horne said...

Cute books...I really did like the storylines and the characters. I think most younger children will easily follow these stories and look forward to more.

I teach middle school, so it was hard for me to get into these as I do adolescent lit but I did think these books are definitely appropriate for elementary age children.

Picnic Basket Rating: 4/5

Lindsay Horne
New Kent Middle School
New Kent, VA

Anonymous said...

Read both books and found them to be charming and good read for my 2 and 3 graders. The stories are very interest capturing for the students. Like the lessons that are hidden in the books.

First book - Bat juice is not very good and does make one feel a little not himself. Follow through with your tasks and don't stop half way.

Second book - Loyalty and open the mind to imagine Roman times.

Tina's Blog said...

The Pet Sitter series were enjoyable reads. I can see my first - third graders liking them. I did notice the use of some words in the stories to enhance vocabulary development. These books are also a bit shorter than Junie B. Jones or the Magic Tree House books my kids so enjoy, so I predict they will get checked out often. As an adult, I understand the place of these series books, but the one thing these lacked was any real character development.
I give them a 3 out of 5

Lisa Kennedy said...

I completed both of The Pet Sitter books over the weekend. Both would be popular with young fantasy adventure readers. The humor of both books is simple enough for a young student to enjoy. Older readers can appreciate the odd job experiences of Max, the pet sitter. I would certainly recommend the book to my students as a fun series to read. Max's next pet sitting stories will be anxiously awaited. I would give the books each a 4 on the 1-5 Picnic Basket scale.

Beth Davison, Media specialist said...

I read these with a small group of fourth graders, and they loved them both! The characters were fun and likeable, and the plot was quick and enjoyable, too. I think reluctant readers who like animals will really be attracted to the size of the text as well as the pictures.

Beth Davison
Media Specialist
Draper Intermediate School

CPA Mom said...

Loved these books!


Anonymous said...

This is a great series. Max is a very likable character and the mayhem caused in the books is very enjoyable. It was an easy read that would appeal to those struggling readers. It also teaches the lesson of responsibility without being too preachy. These books are a definite addition to our collection.

Anja said...

These were great kids' books! They are fast reads and I think boys will eat them up. Also think they would make great read alouds with younger students.

I am not sure I would agree with them being middle grades appropriate. I really think they would appeal more to elementary aged kids -- I suspect 2nd and 3rd grade boys would eat up this fun series.

I think it is a definite 4 stars out of 5!

Anonymous said...

I was quite disappointed with the first book . I found a lot of the dialogue to be rude and bratty and would not want younger students to think it appropriate.
The second book was more of what I was hoping for. Students love time travel and giggle over talking animals. I enjoyed the themes of frienship and working together.

Stacy B. said...

I enjoyed reading "The Pet Sitter Books" and plan on using them with a summer book club. Children will enjoy reading about Max's adventures and how he gets himself into and out of situations. Although things work out conveniently at times, I can see a lot of discussions occuring with second and third graders while doing a read aloud with these books. I would recommend this series for a classroom library!

angel believer said...

The Pet Sitter Series (#1 Tiger Taming and #2 Dixie in Danger) was an enjoyable reading experience. It is a good series for second and third grade students. This series would be a fun read aloud for first graders. The books seem to be more appropriate for younger students. There is a simplicity about the books that make them perfect for younger readers. The stories are full of fun adventures. The chapter length is of an appropriate length for the beginning chapter book readers. Young readers will enjoy Max and his job as a pet sitter. I give the series a 3 out of five.

By Mary Lou D.
Literacy facilitator
Bella Vista Elementary
Cottonwood Heights, UT

Sheri said...

I read the books in order and found the first book with many references to Harry Potter books, witches, flying brooms, etc. not as entertaining as the second. The first book had chapters that were short 5-10 pages, but the interest level was low for the 3rd grade students I gave it to. The second book Dixie in Danger, they liked better even though the chapers were 9-14 pages long. The second book about Dixie the dormouse had some information about Romans eating dormice. The kids thought that was interesting. But I didn't think most 3rd graders would understand the reference to car speedometers and the grammar was a problem for me. The use of British phrases "broke cover and shot across the room," "Dixie Villa," and "hold fire" didn't bother them at all. The students I read parts of both to wondered why Tiger was not a striped cat like a tiger. And they were confused by a fluffy tail on a mouse in Dixie in Danger as they think mice have long skinny tails.
I would give book 1 a 3 for 8-9 year olds and book 2 a #4 and suggest it for 7-8 year olds or struggling readers.

Jacqueline Simmons, M.Ed said...

The Pet Sitter's Books are great! the books are interesting and funny. A second grade student love the books and I recommend them to educators, media specialists and parents. The books are very engaging and kids need to have fun reading!

I give this book 5 stars!

Laurie said...

All around good books for elementary readers. The story are cute and appealing to young children as most of them adore animals. The illustrations were nicely done as well, very crisp looking and enough of them to break up the story for kids who "need" more illustrations.

I give them a 4.5 out of 5.

Dawn said...

What Fun! One boy + one animal = adventure!

These stories will appeal to young boys whether they seek adventures, enjoy daily romps with their pets, or, like Max, dream of having pets of their own. Each animal provides Max with a challenge as they deal with separation from their owner and often take advantage of him. I would say the interest level for these books would be in grades first through fourth. Reading one aloud would hook students into continuing the series. I give this book a 4!

Dawn VanLerberghe
K-12 Librarian
Baraga Area Schools
Baraga, MI

Susan Appleton said...

I really enjoyed the Pet Sitter books! I think they are suited for 2-3 grade readers. I teach 5th grade but I have some lower-level students in my class room and they are reading them now and enjoying them. The storylines are great and always end on a positive note which I love. The illustrations are fun and really add to the plot and help the lower-level readers out a lot. Great books. I give them a 4/5

Molly said...

Max decides to become a pet-sitter and readers follow his adventures as he takes on some interesting jobs with some very unusual pets. Although marked as middle grade fiction, these books were geared toward middle elementary aged students (2nd/3rd grade). They were formulaic, with Max rushing out the door for an immediate need for a pet sitter, finding an unusual owner and an equally strange pet who at first doesn’t care for Max, an adventure that makes them work together, and a safe arrival home just before the owner notices anything, but I think predictability goes relatively unnoticed with that age group and actually helps many early independent readers. I was disturbed by the first book in which Miss Itchy's cat throws a party reminiscent of one a teen might throw when parents are away. I don't know how many 2nd-3rd graders would pick up on that, but to an adult it seemed pretty obvious the cats were drinking the equivalent of alcohol. The author employed the use of very basic sentence structure with a lack of variety which really started to bother me by the end of the 2nd book. On the other hand each book included several challenging words, which I thought was a good way to push readers to move out of their usual vocabulary. Unfortunately, that technique just didn't mesh well with the simple sentences making the use of some of those words awkward rather than challenging. They didn’t stand out in my mind, and I think there are much better books out there to add to a library’s collection.

I’d give them a 2/5.

Molly Matchak
Sharon Middle-High School Library

Stacey Dever said...

Loved the stories. Loved the idea of a child having a job. So many kids do not do chores or have jobs. It is nice to see a character in a book have responsibilities. The writing was very descriptive and the story was very imaginative. I am going to read these stories to my children.

jlarkin said...

Well - although I teach middle school, I picked these books to read and review. Why? A purely selfish reason, my son's name is Max and I thought I'd try reading these to him. He's only four - but he LOVED the first one. He loved the antics of the cat, the names of the characters, and the magic of it all. Each night when we would get ready to read a few chapters, we would talk about what we had read the previous night and he was definitely engaged and could recall all of the funny events. The second one, on the other hand, just didn't do it for him. I think it was a bit more confusing - he didn't understand the time travel and the elevator aspect. Obviously, these books weren't geared for a four year old though! Overall - I'd give the first one a 4 and the second one a 3.

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